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[sanddunerider]

Duelist,  LOL,  Nice job,, 

Now? what are you going to do today?

[Duelist]

Thank you.  Thank you very much. <Elvis impersonation over>

[DianaGail]

We went yesterday.  It didn't seem like almost 20,000 were there until parade time.  We didn't wait in any long lines for rides.  Most were walk ons.  There seemed to be more adults than kids yesterday.  I heard the wait for coasters, etc were much longer than the smaller rides.  We saw Rudolph, clarice, and the bumble.  The Santa line was long so we skipped that.  We got one of the last loaves of cinnamon bread at 5:10.  I waited in line almost 30 minutes for it. The baker was dealing with a very rude man who was angry they were out until at least 8.  The hot chocolate line on the square moved at a snail pace.  The girls working there didn't seem to mind that people were getting angry.  They were more worried about their diet cokes and taking to each other.  Tracy heaston was great as always and the tree was beautiful.  The parade was spaced out long...we kept thinking it was done but more would come.  Leaving was a nightmare.  A woman who had been causing drama in the square earlier because her ecv wouldn't hold her correctly (she was large) fell in the crowd going out.  None of us are even sure why she was walking.  And image was right in the middle of the walk way so they had to get us single file from the cave line entrance  down to the bakery.  When that amount of people are leaving, it is awful.  Overall it was a good day.  We had hoped to visit again next week but the weather may not allow us to do that. 

[mhguy77]

I was up on Sunday expecting the crowds to be manageable.  I was wrong.  When I arrived at around 2 or so they had filled 5 and were sending them down to 6.  The traffic to the park was backed up the the High Road.  I rode Outlaw Run, the wait was 45 min. they load so slow. 
I ate a Apple Dumpling (good stuff) and walked around very little then left without seeing the tree do its thing or see any shows.  The main walk ways are so congested you cant move.  SDC is getting to the point they are upsetting people not using some crowd control or moving their own booths back a little to open it up for pedestrians.  The Smores and Chips and Tater Twist booths are ridiculous.  There are bottlenecks in these areas that create anger zones for the patrons.   I am glad they are busy but they could put some more thought into crowd dispersion and setting up room for people trying to purchase items without creating gridlock.  It was bad enough I left 3 hours before I expected too.  Don't think I am going to go back next year in December at all.  The patrons on the tram were not happy with the crowds.  It frankly becomes less Christmassy and a little more Times Squarish (Think New Years, but without the booze you need to put up with it.)  They are going to have to do something to open up the pedestrian areas.  Not by removing flower beds but maybe opening up some of the paths that have been closed or never completed like behind the Cajon Theater and possibly a loop where Wildfire should meet Powder Keg. Widen some of the paths?

[Swoosh]

I've already addressed that there will be path changes for next year, but I will hit on one thing you mentioned. 

The path behind Dockside Theater cannot be reopened as a new security office has been built back there.  So that path is permanently BOH now. 

One idea I've had is moving the specialty Christmas food to that empty field where Runaway Ore Cart was and then have picnic tables and make the area festive with additional decorations and lights.  It is underutilized right now and would help move some of the ODV stands off the main paths. 

I also think S'mores by Saloon could stay, but have access to it be in Lumbercamp instead of on the street. 

Saloon traffic could be fixed too if they did the following: 
1. Use the South doors as the entrance/exit
2. Fill porch first then chain off
3. Send people into the switchbacks (opposite direction of the norm)
4. Send people up the steps (they'll go in the exit door upstairs)
5. When exit, people will come out south side and avoid the busy street

[runner1960]

As some of the people with me said. "There is nothing Christmas at all about this. It is just a money grab." They left never to return again. I really got to thinking about it and I hate to say it but they might be right. I have long said they need a attendance cap. Sent them a E mail saying the same thing above. They acknowledged that there was a problem and we're looking at ways to improve. I'm like MH guy, think I'm done with the Christmas festival. Probably go the the brewery in St. Louis next year and rent a bonfire roast s'mores and brats have a cold brew and enjoy not fighting overcrowding.

[Swoosh]

What amazes me is that I've been on two of the busiest Saturdays of the festival and still did everything I wanted and saw all of the shows. Not to be blunt, but are you guys just that bad at time management and planning? 

Get there before chaindrop
11:30 Pure Heart
12:30 Dickens
FITH & WildFire
3:00 Saloon (snack here)
OR & GBS
5:30 Wonderful Life
GE & FL
7:30 Nativity
Dinner
FM
9:00 Parade
Train & Rerides

I've NEVER had a problem with this schedule

[History Buff]

What amazes me is that I've been on two of the busiest Saturdays of the festival and still did everything I wanted and saw all of the shows. Not to be blunt, but are you guys just that bad at time management and planning? 

Get there before chaindrop
11:30 Pure Heart
12:30 Dickens
FITH & WildFire
3:00 Saloon (snack here)
OR & GBS
5:30 Wonderful Life
GE & FL
7:30 Nativity
Dinner
FM
9:00 Parade
Train & Rerides

I've NEVER had a problem with this schedule

What?  No visit with Santa?

[runner1960]

What amazes me is that I've been on two of the busiest Saturdays of the festival and still did everything I wanted and saw all of the shows. Not to be blunt, but are you guys just that bad at time management and planning? 

Get there before chaindrop
11:30 Pure Heart
12:30 Dickens
FITH & WildFire
3:00 Saloon (snack here)
OR & GBS
5:30 Wonderful Life
GE & FL
7:30 Nativity
Dinner
FM
9:00 Parade
Train & Rerides

I've NEVER had a problem with this schedule

I guess you are assuming I want to see the shows or the parade. Been there done that. They are the same, I do not need to see them again until they change or make improvements. FYI, I got there before chaindrop and by 5 to 7 PM the crowds in the streets were unmanageable
and dangerous if there were to be a emergency. I hope they have a plan to clear people if the need ever arises.

Now to your other point if every person went in with a perfect plan as you say on a day when 22500 is in the park.
Dickens capacity 1500 and I am being generous here
Dickens 5 shows a day.
Dickens total for the day 7500 =15000 who dont get in even with the best plan.

Same with the other shows.

Tree and parade can probably be seen by everyone if they are not picky about your vantage point.
Point is they DO NOT have the capacity for the floods they let in. Even with a great plan.

[mhguy77]

I've already addressed that there will be path changes for next year, but I will hit on one thing you mentioned. 

The path behind Dockside Theater cannot be reopened as a new security office has been built back there.  So that path is permanently BOH now. 

One idea I've had is moving the specialty Christmas food to that empty field where Runaway Ore Cart was and then have picnic tables and make the area festive with additional decorations and lights.  It is underutilized right now and would help move some of the ODV stands off the main paths. 

I also think S'mores by Saloon could stay, but have access to it be in Lumbercamp instead of on the street. 

Saloon traffic could be fixed too if they did the following: 
1. Use the South doors as the entrance/exit
2. Fill porch first then chain off
3. Send people into the switchbacks (opposite direction of the norm)
4. Send people up the steps (they'll go in the exit door upstairs)
5. When exit, people will come out south side and avoid the busy street

Points well made Swoosh and I do understand your schedule and its a smart way to make it around the park but there needs to be enough room in the day for people to take things a little slower if they would like and still be able to enjoy some of the offerings.  I appreciate your idea of a " Christmas Eats area built up over the riverblast.  They could actually open that ride back up and tie it in together.  Undoubtedly there are things like routing the traffic at the saloon to maximize public space.  I am afraid that if they don't fix this they will quickly take the shine off the lights and they will see a drop in attendance.  I do agree with Runner that any emergency  on park would be a real disaster.  Knowing where service entrances are and backstage areas they cant snake their way behind the buildings to get to where the problems are, they are going to have to fight the crowd as well.  There are few service entrances centrally located.
I love SDC but it is starting to feel like a money grab.  I received a survey last night asking me what I thought of SDC Christmas, the questions seemed to be geared at this very problem of crowds and availability of attractions, distractions, show times, availability of shows and were there enough shows?  They are aware of this and I hope will soon address this without costing us the beauty and intimacy of the park.

[Swoosh]

Runner, if you are not going for the shows, why do even go during Christmas?  It sounds to me the only reason you go is to complain about how busy it was.

[runner1960]

Runner, if you are not going for the shows, why do even go during Christmas?  It sounds to me the only reason you go is to complain about how busy it was.

We go for the lights and rides and it has been a family tradition since the 1980's. We have seen the shows so many times they bore us. Sorry to rile you up over it. But the purpose of my post was to put a spotlight on the fact they are disappointing people. That's why we won't be back next year unless some changes are made. I like the place but I am sure no fanboy who cannot see the problems or gets special favors. That's why I addressed my concerns with the company also. And if their reply is any indication I am not the only one. The family has decided it might be time to change. And for your information there is a line between complaining and having legitimate concerns. Most complainers just vent and do nothing about it. Most of my concerns are safety related.