Search

[Swoosh]

Yeah I was confused by that statement too. Um, MM goes upside down

[chittlins]

Silver Dollar City is a  victim of misfortune When it comes to coaster additions

Let's compare SDC and DW

You got the clones FIFH and BF added in 72 and 78.

DW added a mine train caled Thunder Express that most of know as the other track of River King that was removed from SFStL. It was removed in 98

SDC added a Thunderation in 93

In 99 SDC got Buzz saw Falls a water coaster and DW got an Arrow Looper.

So we are neck and neck at this point.

SDC adds Wildfire in 2001

Now here's where it get tricky as Celebration City comes along down the Branson road. It switches one erector set for a new one, keeps another erector set and gets Oz Cat in 03. At SDC, the transformation of Buzz saw to Powder Keg happens.

DW gains Thunderhead in 04 so that's two GCIs between the two parks

In 05 and 06 each park gets a new kiddie coaster as part of a larger section of the dredged carnival rides. SDC's is a replacement of sorts for the removed Ore carts kiddie coaster.

In 07, on the dawn of the great recession  DW gets Mystery Mine. That basically evens it up with SDC as it had a leg up with Wildfire. But, as legend goes, SDC was supposed to get its own version of the euro fighter. As the country tumbled into recession this never happened and from my time at this board it was due to performance issues with MM at DW and the economy. It was so bad folklore has that that even though there a deposit for the SDC version it didn't happen. Celebration City closes down thus ending SDC patrons access to it's sister parks GCI.  This is where things swing DW's way coaster wise.

DW gets Wild Eagle in 2012 giving each park a B&M

SDC land Outlaw Run in 2013


In 2014 DW gets Firechaser Express. A mild launcher with a reverse section and a trick track. A part of me thinks that if there was a deposit for an SDC version of Mystery Mine along with settlement money from Huss for the Topple debacle , The money actually went to this. DW got an itermediate coaster like Thunderation that it lacked.

That brings us to today And how SDC fell behind. I point to two things. SDC lost a potential coaster with a redo of Buzzsaw. It also lost a major coaster in a way when CC closed down along with two decent erector set coasters . I view SDC and  CC as one on this as HFEC clearly though they were joined at the hip. CC was to be the flexibility of themjng like DW had gained under Dolly where keeping SDC much more close to home. The parks each had a coulee of failures, BuzzSaw Falls at SDC and the Topple Tower at DW. SDC's was more costly as replaced one type of coaster with another thus preventing an actual gain as where when DW lost Adventure Mountain it gained a coaster instead. I don't consider AM a failure as it was popular with guests.

Each park has recieved clones like the giant swing and the river battle rides. SDC GET a remake of its riverfront with Fireman's Landing. I'm sure in a corporate office in Atlanta this was seen asan apples to apples project with DW's taking out AM for Firechaser as where we are coaster counting Instead. I think SDC has gotten more In extent in the show side of things. I could be wrong On that, if so clear it up for me. I think you are seeing DW get another coaster so soon is because of the resort and a push to make sure it's booked at rack rates in its first full season next year. Since the beginning of the recession. Pigeon Forge/Gatlinburg has separated itself from Branson as a place for families In o really tourism. It being ideal for weekend getaways from the Atlanta area helps.  I think the added emphasis on DW's Waterpark is due to the competition from Wilderness at the Smokies.

[joshblakebran]

Wow Chittlins thanks for the post...that is a very nice and informative side by side comparison. Very interesting! Do you think White Water figures in to why SDC would be behind the 8 ball as well?

[Dewayne]

8 ball what?

[Swoosh]

Well the main issue with White Water is how land locked it is.  I still say that if it was out by SDC it would be much bigger and better visited.  I wonder if WW will buy out Mickey Gilly's theater for expansion land once he is done performing after this season.

[chittlins]

Wow Chittlins thanks for the post...that is a very nice and informative side by side comparison. Very interesting! Do you think White Water figures in to why SDC would be behind the 8 ball as well?

I have no clue as to why HFEC has let Whitewater slip. It's well maintained but has fallen behind so far in ride tech it almost makes more sense to me to just start completely over.like Swoosh suggests. The last addition completely underwhemed. There's intense comp coming from muni aquatic centers. Ft. Smith opens theirs this May. I believe one just up the road from Branson has a  flowrider. Wild River Country in NLR is adding three new slides this year. Nothing special but on part with a recent addition at WW


I had a great conversation with a young man that worked at WRC for years from being a life guard to basically running daily ops just the other day. He's finishing up his Masters in Accounting and will interview with Universal for a position at their new water park under construction in the next few days as he is wrapping up at the UofA.. He openly advocated for them to keep the old school rapid style tube slides  at WRC like the old ones at Whitewater but they are goners. Kid has a bright future. We shared a few ideas for something locally.

Anyway back to SDC. I thint when it comes to shared additions, SDC has come out on top. I think the styling and end product of GE looks better than County Fair. The rides are not identical but County Fair is much closer to carnival than GE in look and feel. DW seems like it's missing a Zipper and tilt a whirl. In all, I think SDC trumps  them in overall flats. DW has several kids play areas that seem straight out of an old school mall where as Half Dollar is much more finished as well as the new Fireman's Landing, I'd look for DW to get a similar play structure. Don't  forget there is no Flooded Mine at DW. I  still think SDC is the better overall park but right now it's location, location, location.

[shavethewhales]

I was talking with some other posters yesterday at the park and while don't read too much into this - this is "our take" on what is happening with the park.

When the park originally opened it was a craft demonstration park.  The 1880's theme was just a by product of what they were trying to accomplish - demonstrating lost craft skills of a bygone era.

Eventually, the park started adding rides to "plus" the original mission.  The original mission still existed but the rides were just icing.

The park realized after awhile, that in order for it to remain relevant, a mission change would have to occur.  The focus shifted from craft demonstrations to activities and rides that the whole family could do together.  The two existed in harmony during this golden era.

Now we are in the next evolution of the park.  The park is no longer having craft demonstrations as the main focus.  We have moved from a park that had an 1880's theme as a happy coincidence due to the time frame they were wanting to show with the crafts to a theme park that has an 1880s theme.  There is nothing wrong with this, but I do feel that some posters need to come to terms with this.

Now the good part about this, is that the park is leaving the square are areas up to Midtown Road/Bridges practically untouched to the main mission.  I refer to this area as the "Legacy area" -- we still have numerous craft demonstrations in this area and honestly I would love for their presence to be beefed up a little more.  As in all of the boutiques be required to have a resident artist in them (even if for show).  The homestead is still there, Shad's shack is still there and honestly the area still looks very nice.

Now to the whole "it don't fit" argument about the new areas.  I think the park has started to realize that while the 1880s theme is a fun theme, at times it can prove to be shackles when expanding.  I personally find all of the new sections to work with the 1880s theme, Grand Expo excluded (and I'll get to that here in a bit).  There were farms in the 1880s and I think the Wilson's Farm area is well done.  The Outlaw Run area is also well done.  I find its placement a little weird by the farm, but in order to fit a large coaster in the area they had to do what they had to do.  I just find the transition from the farm to the depot very jarring.  Fireman's Landing fits in just fine.  All of those areas I mentioned are well done.

Now let's get to Grand Expo.  Believe it or not, that area is quickly coming up on 10 years.  Now I am not sure how many of you have noticed things, I have mainly because I have been well acquainted with the area since the beginning.  But the theme to the area has slowly but surely started to disappear.  You'll notice that the main marquee for the area is gone.  A lot of the signs for the different sections have disappeared (shoot a whole section that used to be by the RGHH is gone now).  I have a theory on this -- I think this is our next area to get made over... just going off the signs that I am seeing.

Now the next part is complete speculation, but this is what I would do.  I would remove the elephants completely (send them to Wild Adventures).  I would move Ladybugs, Flight of Fantasy and Happy Frogs to Half Dollar Holler. -- let's touch on that now before I go into other details on Grand Expo.  I would put Flight where Lil Swings was and then the other two rides where the story time and sand place is currently in HDH.  That area could become the half pint ride area of the park and I think would really benefit from that move.

Now back to GE.  Remove the elephants, move the kiddie rides, now retheme the remaining rides to the new theme of the area that goes with this redo.  Oh and all carny games go away with this retheme.  I want actual food stands and not the ODV carts that are currently in there.  Probably need a shop as there is (surprisingly) not one in this area. 

Ok so you are probably wondering what will go where the kiddie rides were.... this is where the station for the next coaster will go.  I will just leave it at that.  You can choose your own breed of coaster, but I think that's what will happen.

Wow, long post, but yeah....
Oh and don't look for anything major in 2016 at SDC... and maybe not even 2017

I had to drag Swoosh's post back up because I really like it. I agree that the park is on the backside of the inevitable transition into being a theme park instead of the wildly unique Ozarkan attraction of it's own making, and that's something I keep having to remind people that we have to simply deal with or move on. On the same note though, I think it's fair to critique, ask for more than the bare minimum, and to keep pushing them to be ahead of the rest in more than just rides, rides, rides - but that's a discussion for another thread.

I really, really hope you are right about the GE make-over. That's also been growing at the back of my mind over the past couple of seasons. It's hard to tell if they simply don't care about that section of the park at this point or if they really are just planning on completely re-inventing it soon. Without the meager signage it's gotten incredibly bland, but most of us have ignored it because it's simply never felt like a real part of the park anyway. It's just an improved employee parking lot. 



Chittlins, I get what you're saying about how SDC's coaster collection has evolved vs. DW's, but of course that's very much an enthusiast perspective. What it really comes down to is $$$ and the potential the head honcho's see for making more $$$ in the future. If SDC's attendance wasn't so flat, we'd definitely have had another coaster or two at this point. It's not really misfortune, it's just how the market is responding.

Same thing with White Water. If they felt like it, it wouldn't be hard to completely re-do White Water as it stands - even with the relatively small land area - and make it ten times the park that it is now. I'm sure we both know of water parks with less land area that have so much more stuff. There's just not enough trust in the Branson market, but maybe we'll see another good continuation of the gradual redevelopment of the park this year.

What we really need to watch is whether or not HFEC scoops up that theatre behind WW that is going up for sale.

[chittlins]

I was talking with some other posters yesterday at the park and while don't read too much into this - this is "our take" on what is happening with the park.

When the park originally opened it was a craft demonstration park.  The 1880's theme was just a by product of what they were trying to accomplish - demonstrating lost craft skills of a bygone era.

Eventually, the park started adding rides to "plus" the original mission.  The original mission still existed but the rides were just icing.

The park realized after awhile, that in order for it to remain relevant, a mission change would have to occur.  The focus shifted from craft demonstrations to activities and rides that the whole family could do together.  The two existed in harmony during this golden era.

Now we are in the next evolution of the park.  The park is no longer having craft demonstrations as the main focus.  We have moved from a park that had an 1880's theme as a happy coincidence due to the time frame they were wanting to show with the crafts to a theme park that has an 1880s theme.  There is nothing wrong with this, but I do feel that some posters need to come to terms with this.

Now the good part about this, is that the park is leaving the square are areas up to Midtown Road/Bridges practically untouched to the main mission.  I refer to this area as the "Legacy area" -- we still have numerous craft demonstrations in this area and honestly I would love for their presence to be beefed up a little more.  As in all of the boutiques be required to have a resident artist in them (even if for show).  The homestead is still there, Shad's shack is still there and honestly the area still looks very nice.

Now to the whole "it don't fit" argument about the new areas.  I think the park has started to realize that while the 1880s theme is a fun theme, at times it can prove to be shackles when expanding.  I personally find all of the new sections to work with the 1880s theme, Grand Expo excluded (and I'll get to that here in a bit).  There were farms in the 1880s and I think the Wilson's Farm area is well done.  The Outlaw Run area is also well done.  I find its placement a little weird by the farm, but in order to fit a large coaster in the area they had to do what they had to do.  I just find the transition from the farm to the depot very jarring.  Fireman's Landing fits in just fine.  All of those areas I mentioned are well done.

Now let's get to Grand Expo.  Believe it or not, that area is quickly coming up on 10 years.  Now I am not sure how many of you have noticed things, I have mainly because I have been well acquainted with the area since the beginning.  But the theme to the area has slowly but surely started to disappear.  You'll notice that the main marquee for the area is gone.  A lot of the signs for the different sections have disappeared (shoot a whole section that used to be by the RGHH is gone now).  I have a theory on this -- I think this is our next area to get made over... just going off the signs that I am seeing.

Now the next part is complete speculation, but this is what I would do.  I would remove the elephants completely (send them to Wild Adventures).  I would move Ladybugs, Flight of Fantasy and Happy Frogs to Half Dollar Holler. -- let's touch on that now before I go into other details on Grand Expo.  I would put Flight where Lil Swings was and then the other two rides where the story time and sand place is currently in HDH.  That area could become the half pint ride area of the park and I think would really benefit from that move.

Now back to GE.  Remove the elephants, move the kiddie rides, now retheme the remaining rides to the new theme of the area that goes with this redo.  Oh and all carny games go away with this retheme.  I want actual food stands and not the ODV carts that are currently in there.  Probably need a shop as there is (surprisingly) not one in this area. 

Ok so you are probably wondering what will go where the kiddie rides were.... this is where the station for the next coaster will go.  I will just leave it at that.  You can choose your own breed of coaster, but I think that's what will happen.

Wow, long post, but yeah....
Oh and don't look for anything major in 2016 at SDC... and maybe not even 2017

I had to drag Swoosh's post back up because I really like it. I agree that the park is on the backside of the inevitable transition into being a theme park instead of the wildly unique Ozarkan attraction of it's own making, and that's something I keep having to remind people that we have to simply deal with or move on. On the same note though, I think it's fair to critique, ask for more than the bare minimum, and to keep pushing them to be ahead of the rest in more than just rides, rides, rides - but that's a discussion for another thread.

I really, really hope you are right about the GE make-over. That's also been growing at the back of my mind over the past couple of seasons. It's hard to tell if they simply don't care about that section of the park at this point or if they really are just planning on completely re-inventing it soon. Without the meager signage it's gotten incredibly bland, but most of us have ignored it because it's simply never felt like a real part of the park anyway. It's just an improved employee parking lot. 



Chittlins, I get what you're saying about how SDC's coaster collection has evolved vs. DW's, but of course that's very much an enthusiast perspective. What it really comes down to is $$$ and the potential the head honcho's see for making more $$$ in the future. If SDC's attendance wasn't so flat, we'd definitely have had another coaster or two at this point. It's not really misfortune, it's just how the market is responding.

Same thing with White Water. If they felt like it, it wouldn't be hard to completely re-do White Water as it stands - even with the relatively small land area - and make it ten times the park that it is now. I'm sure we both know of water parks with less land area that have so much more stuff. There's just not enough trust in the Branson market, but maybe we'll see another good continuation of the gradual redevelopment of the park this year.

What we really need to watch is whether or not HFEC scoops up that theatre behind WW that is going up for sale.

I mentioned the explosion of quality muni facilities but look around SDC. You have StLSF, WoF, Magic Springs all offering a water park as part of general admission to the dry ride part. Even Frontier City has a decent water play structure. If you are going to have a stand alone park it has to be value added and stand out from the crowd. Shlitterbahn has it's wildly popular wave and rapid rivers.

[Dewayne]

^^^ Yes! I dont get why they have WW separate and you have to pay for another ticket/pay more on your Season Pass just to get in. They should have it closer to SDC and/or let you in with your SDC ticket/pass.

Maybe even offer a free shuttle between the 2.

[Junior, too!]

WW is Missouri's 1st water park. Opened in 1980 on the old Branson airport property. Locals joked it was the only flat land on the strip, why did Herschends build hills on it, lol. I was a first season guest, and then it was a thrill to be there. I had never experienced anything like it. I do wish they would give it a big revamping. I like the idea of tearing out Gilley's and adding to the park. There is still room to develop or redevelop the existing property.

[DianaGail]

I know I'm in the minority here, but our family enjoys White Water as it is.  It is a great park for families with young kids.   

As for Half Dollar Hollar, it could go away and it wouldn't be a big loss for us.  It is a pain.  My three year old can't go through the ropes herself so I end up having to go.  Kids run wild and last time I was there, there was more than one child bloodied up after being in with the big kids.  If the moved the kiddie rides down there like has been suggested on this thread, I would be much happier with the area.  Have they ever even done a story time like they advertise they do?

As for a shuttle between the two parks, I'm not sure how that would ever work.  The strip traffic is bad enough as it is.  You would have some major issues making decent time between the two and you would have a lot of people that would just park at White Water or walk there from the hotel just to use the shuttle.   SDC just wasn't meant to have a waterpark on site.  I think that would majorly take away from the park even more than things already are.

[chittlins]

^^^ Yes! I dont get why they have WW separate and you have to pay for another ticket/pay more on your Season Pass just to get in. They should have it closer to SDC and/or let you in with your SDC ticket/pass.

Maybe even offer a free shuttle between the 2.

That is a rather recent phenomenon.  Six Flags Atlanta and the the Six Flags wager park are separate like Arlington. So what did Six as do? They added a water park section to the dry park.

[runner1960]

"What we really need to watch is whether or not HFEC scoops up that theatre behind WW that is going up for sale. "

Just a question but would it be wise for them to buy adjacent ground when they do not own the ground Whitewater sits on ?  It is just leased I had always heard.

[runner1960]

Also to add to my post above. All corporations have long term plans and then even longer term plans. And this is a question not a opinion.

Do you all think the fact that HFEC does not own the ground SDC sits on will figure in expansion plans for the future. They have a 99 year lease that started in 1951 according to Wikipedia. That puts them 61 years into it. Still a long time to go, but Corporations always look long term. Will that fact effect future endeavors?

[Dewayne]

First of all, Mickey Gilley Theatre is next to WW, along the strip, not behind it. Behind WW is the Red Roof Mall. Both of those have closed and they can expand the park into Mickey Gilley and/or expand the parking lot into Red Roof Mall, then expand the park into the parking lot.

Secondly, what is this theater that people keep saying is "behind White Water"? There is no theater behind WW.

Thirdly, yes I would like a water structure tree house like Frontier City did, but in a different SDC sort of way.