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[shavethewhales]

I should know more about this by now, but I have heard SDC referred to as supposed the rebuilding of Marmaros, which legend says was burned down by Baldknobbers (after it had already essentially been abandoned though). A lot of older SDC signage was big on referring to Marmaros. I think it's something that the PTB have let slip in favor of being more generic.


Also, there's this from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Cave

According to Silver Dollar City park legend, a local group of vigilantes who later turned into outlaws called the Bald Knobbers were known for throwing people through the sinkhole into Devil's Den around the mid 19th century. Though it's likely that roving Bushwhackers and outlaws would've undoubtedly chosen to dispose of their victims through this sinkhole, the Bald Knobbers did not form until 1883 (starting-up in neighboring Taney County), were replaced by an unofficial chapter in 1886 within nearby Christian County, with unofficial chapters in other counties (including Stone County where the cave is located) later than that.

However, though there is no written evidence to substantiate it, it's possible that Stone County's unofficial Bald Knobbers used the cave for various uses sometime in 1889, between the time the mining operations ceased and late October of that year when it was purchased for sightseeing tours.

and on the same page:

Marmaros (Greek for Marble) was a small town that formed along with the Marble Cave Mining and Manufacturing Company in 1884. It was originally called Marble City. It was located on the rough hilltop near the cave and recorded a plat map at the courthouse in Galena, Missouri. Marmaros contained a hotel, general store, pottery shop, white oak furniture factory, and was rumored to have a saloon. The town turned into a ghost town in 1889 after the Marble Cave Mining, Co. closed. When the Lynches bought the cave, the town was burned to the ground by the local group of vigilantes known as the Bald Knobbers.

[clancomyn]

I should know more about this by now, but I have heard SDC referred to as supposed the rebuilding of Marmaros, which legend says was burned down by Baldknobbers (after it had already essentially been abandoned though). A lot of older SDC signage was big on referring to Marmaros. I think it's something that the PTB have let slip in favor of being more generic.


Also, there's this from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Cave

According to Silver Dollar City park legend, a local group of vigilantes who later turned into outlaws called the Bald Knobbers were known for throwing people through the sinkhole into Devil's Den around the mid 19th century. Though it's likely that roving Bushwhackers and outlaws would've undoubtedly chosen to dispose of their victims through this sinkhole, the Bald Knobbers did not form until 1883 (starting-up in neighboring Taney County), were replaced by an unofficial chapter in 1886 within nearby Christian County, with unofficial chapters in other counties (including Stone County where the cave is located) later than that.

However, though there is no written evidence to substantiate it, it's possible that Stone County's unofficial Bald Knobbers used the cave for various uses sometime in 1889, between the time the mining operations ceased and late October of that year when it was purchased for sightseeing tours.

and on the same page:

Marmaros (Greek for Marble) was a small town that formed along with the Marble Cave Mining and Manufacturing Company in 1884. It was originally called Marble City. It was located on the rough hilltop near the cave and recorded a plat map at the courthouse in Galena, Missouri. Marmaros contained a hotel, general store, pottery shop, white oak furniture factory, and was rumored to have a saloon. The town turned into a ghost town in 1889 after the Marble Cave Mining, Co. closed. When the Lynches bought the cave, the town was burned to the ground by the local group of vigilantes known as the Bald Knobbers.

Interesting, because the hanging of the Christian County Bald Knobbers on the courthouse square in Ozark occurred in 1889; the Taney County Chapter had disbanded several years before. Of course, local legend frequently assigns such acts to others; witness how many towns in the South were destroyed by General Sherman, or how many beds General Washington slept in. 

Given the nature of the two chapters, it's quite probable that the Bald Knobber name and legacy were taken by almost any group wanting to use it to their own ends.

It's still a great story, and like so many other legends, there is an element of truth. Truth be told, I've always wanted to bring the Bald Knobber mask my friend and I had made for our storytelling program years ago to SDC and put it on right before the car emerges from the last drop in FITH. 

[runner1960]

With FITH basically being a shell of its former self and in bad need of repair I would prefer to see it completely torn Down if the structure is in as bad shape as some other posters have eluded to. With that said a complete rebuild in the same location. Just think what they could do with today's 3d/4d technology. Keep the storyline the same but just enhance the experience.

I just wonder how the flooded mine structure is holding up? A wet humid environment is not good for anything, but it seems to be ok. Just think what they could do with water screen technology and today's animatronics. Take away the shoot out and give it a great storyline.

AP just start over with a mountain type flume similar to splash. It would take tons of capital to do this though. Not sure if HFE has deep enough pockets for something of this caliber. If not a good flume through the woods would be great.

[MoOzark]

I find this discussion quite interesting because I am currently writing a history of the Marvel Cave area of Stone County, Missouri. It is sort of a history of the area before it was Silver Dollar City. One goal I have for this book is to track down the origins of the folk tales and determine if they are based on any actual history. I am finding that many of the stories do have a basis in fact but have been twisted with the retelling. It seems that everyone who writes the history only researches what others have recently written. Like whispering a story in the ear of one person who in turn whispers into the ear of another, the story is continually changing.

Part of the problem with these stories is that it is often HARD to determine what the REAL STORY is. It is difficult to separate the myth from history. The reason for this is often the lack of documentation. Not many towns in SW Missouri had a newspaper in the 1880s. One that did was Galena. However, no issues of the newspaper from that era have survived to this day. With great persistence I have been able to find a few gems of history in some very rare books and an occasional newspaper article in an out of town newspaper.

The story of the man thrown into the cave by the Bald Knobbers is based on fact, but the real story is a bit different. The incident had nothing to do with the Bald Knobbers and was before the Bald Knobber era. It happened in 1865 at the end of the Civil War. An accused bushwhacker is said to have been thrown into the Devil's Den (now Marvel Cave) by a "home guard" unit of the Union Army.

One story that I have NOT found a source for yet is the one about the Bald Knobbers burning the town of Marmaros. I suspect that a common forest fire may be the culprit but the research goes on. There was a large forest fire in the area about the same time that the cave was sold to Mr. Lynch. If anyone knows of any historical source for the burning of the town, please post it here.

[clancomyn]

I find this discussion quite interesting because I am currently writing a history of the Marvel Cave area of Stone County, Missouri. It is sort of a history of the area before it was Silver Dollar City. One goal I have for this book is to track down the origins of the folk tales and determine if they are based on any actual history. I am finding that many of the stories do have a basis in fact but have been twisted with the retelling. It seems that everyone who writes the history only researches what others have recently written. Like whispering a story in the ear of one person who in turn whispers into the ear of another, the story is continually changing.

Part of the problem with these stories is that it is often HARD to determine what the REAL STORY is. It is difficult to separate the myth from history. The reason for this is often the lack of documentation. Not many towns in SW Missouri had a newspaper in the 1880s. One that did was Galena. However, no issues of the newspaper from that era have survived to this day. With great persistence I have been able to find a few gems of history in some very rare books and an occasional newspaper article in an out of town newspaper.

The story of the man thrown into the cave by the Bald Knobbers is based on fact, but the real story is a bit different. The incident had nothing to do with the Bald Knobbers and was before the Bald Knobber era. It happened in 1865 at the end of the Civil War. An accused bushwhacker is said to have been thrown into the Devil’s Den (now Marvel Cave) by a “home guard” unit of the Union Army.

One story that I have NOT found a source for yet is the one about the Bald Knobbers burning the town of Marmaros. I suspect that a common forest fire may be the culprit but the research goes on. There was a large forest fire in the area about the same time that the cave was sold to Mr. Lynch. If anyone knows of any historical source for the burning of the town, please post it here.

The Stone County Home Guard? They are also linked to another well-known local legend of "Dead Man's" Pond (known officially as Yocum Pond) just outside of Reeds Spring. Vance Randolph has the best-known documentation of that particular ghost story.

[Junior, too!]

A story I heard over 30 years ago claimed the town was burned when it was discovered by locals a Canadien had bought the cave. Didn't really have anything to do with Baldknobbers, just clanishness.

[History Buff]

I do love me some romanticized history!

[Coaster]

With FITH basically being a shell of its former self and in bad need of repair I would prefer to see it completely torn Down if the structure is in as bad shape as some other posters have eluded to. With that said a complete rebuild in the same location. Just think what they could do with today's 3d/4d technology. Keep the storyline the same but just enhance the experience.

I just wonder how the flooded mine structure is holding up? A wet humid environment is not good for anything, but it seems to be ok. Just think what they could do with water screen technology and today's animatronics. Take away the shoot out and give it a great storyline.

AP just start over with a mountain type flume similar to splash. It would take tons of capital to do this though. Not sure if HFE has deep enough pockets for something of this caliber. If not a good flume through the woods would be great.

I like where you're going with this. I'd love to see SDC push its boundaries and go where they have never gone before...on one of their oldest and most beloved rides, FITH. Make it into one of the best dark rides in the country. Gut the building out, and make it a top notch attraction. 3D, animatronic, but don't allow it to lose the nostalgia and theme we all know and love so well.

Also, maybe with a revamped FITH, I would love to see a small area of the ride building (maybe a walkthrough gallery) or a new building around the ride dedicated to the history of the baldknobbers. Even if it is a romanticized history, I think the baldknobbers have kind of been forgotten in the park and I think it'd be great to see them return in a bigger form.

One thing I don't want to change is the exterior of FITH. It's so iconic.

[runner1960]

With FITH basically being a shell of its former self and in bad need of repair I would prefer to see it completely torn Down if the structure is in as bad shape as some other posters have eluded to. With that said a complete rebuild in the same location. Just think what they could do with today's 3d/4d technology. Keep the storyline the same but just enhance the experience.

I just wonder how the flooded mine structure is holding up? A wet humid environment is not good for anything, but it seems to be ok. Just think what they could do with water screen technology and today's animatronics. Take away the shoot out and give it a great storyline.

AP just start over with a mountain type flume similar to splash. It would take tons of capital to do this though. Not sure if HFE has deep enough pockets for something of this caliber. If not a good flume through the woods would be great.

I like where you're going with this. I'd love to see SDC push its boundaries and go where they have never gone before...on one of their oldest and most beloved rides, FITH. Make it into one of the best dark rides in the country. Gut the building out, and make it a top notch attraction. 3D, animatronic, but don't allow it to lose the nostalgia and theme we all know and love so well.

Also, maybe with a revamped FITH, I would love to see a small area of the ride building (maybe a walkthrough gallery) or a new building around the ride dedicated to the history of the baldknobbers. Even if it is a romanticized history, I think the baldknobbers have kind of been forgotten in the park and I think it'd be great to see them return in a bigger form.

One thing I don't want to change is the exterior of FITH. It's so iconic.

I can just imagine rounding a bend on FITH with 3D glasses and up ahead you see a group of baldknobbers galloping toward you as you approach the burning town all in 3d film! smelling the smoke then as you get to the bridge drooooop.

[MoOzark]

The Stone County Home Guard? They are also linked to another well-known local legend of "Dead Man's" Pond (known officially as Yocum Pond) just outside of Reeds Spring. Vance Randolph has the best-known documentation of that particular ghost story.

Yes, according to the source it was the Stone County Home Guard. However, it did not identify the specific Regiment and Company. There is also another story associated with this about the bushwhacker's wife (or sister) returning about 20 years later to claim the body. Apparently no remains were ever found and there was this theory that the bones had been dissolved by chemicals in the bat guano. In another version of the story, it was Belle Starr that came for the body. So there are several things to be sorted out to get the real story on this.

[clancomyn]

The Stone County Home Guard? They are also linked to another well-known local legend of "Dead Man's" Pond (known officially as Yocum Pond) just outside of Reeds Spring. Vance Randolph has the best-known documentation of that particular ghost story.

Yes, according to the source it was the Stone County Home Guard. However, it did not identify the specific Regiment and Company. There is also another story associated with this about the bushwhacker's wife (or sister) returning about 20 years later to claim the body. Apparently no remains were ever found and there was this theory that the bones had been dissolved by chemicals in the bat guano. In another version of the story, it was Belle Starr that came for the body. So there are several things to be sorted out to get the real story on this.

The Stone County Home Guard was the unit; individual companies would be raised by an individual (Captain So-and-So's Company) and given a letter desgination -- Company A, B, etc. During the Civil War, a regiment consisted of 1,000 men divided into ten-twelve companies; the regiment would be further divided into battalions. Most county home guard organizations would be on the battalion level.

Sorry to get pedantic there. :wink:

[runner1960]

Back on topic. Does anyone ever think Grandfathers Mansion will get a upgrade? It is probably one of the few gravity houses still in existence. It sure needs some love also.

[History Buff]

I don't think anything significant will ever be done to restore the glory of GM.  It operates to capacity the way it is, so I doubt there is any motivation to restore it.