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[shavethewhales]

So we've talked on and off about crowd-pinch points around the park and the need for a new entrance, but with the crowds this Christmas season it's starting to become clear that the extent of the issue is pretty huge for the PTB. The park in general is just not setup for the crowds they are building up for. It's not just pinch points, it's large areas that need to be completely reconfigured. And that's before you get into the old issues with aging buildings, ADA access, and the topography...

I'm a huge fan of the old parts of SDC, and hate the thought of them having to bulldoze large areas and start over, but from a business and engineering perspective I have to admit that I'm thinking about it more and more on each visit. Even though they've done a good job most of the time with the new architecture and keeping with the general classic SDC look, the old buildings were built with certain qualities and love that can't be replaced. Unfortunately I don't see how they can keep going like this much longer either.

I've heard rumblings that the park is finally coming to terms with this themselves and perhaps we'll start seeing some of the streets expanded before long. I'm very curious to know what the comprehensive plan is - you know that they have to have one by now. Perhaps in a few years it will be SDC's turn to have a decade-long several hundred million-dollar round of investments to rebuild large parts of the park.

I think it's shaping up to be a transformative era for the park, and a tough one for fans of the "old" SDC to get through. They need a new entrance, a reconfigured and expanded parking system, more space in the main square, bigger and more ADA-compliant pathways around the main loop of the park, more restaurant space, and the two big classic rides are coming due for some kind of rebuild or major refurbishment before they completely fall apart. Plus a lot of buildings in general could stand to be replaced to be larger and more accessible.

I don't mean any of this in a doomsday tone either, I'm excited for progress in general and I enjoy seeing the park grow. I just think they've already hit the breaking point and I'm actually curious why they haven't done more of this already.

Thoughts?

[History Buff]

Plan?  When they continue to plop things like Fry Bread stands in the middle of pinch points, I wonder if there really is a plan.

[Pudgy Jones]

This is a dangerous area. We all know that SDC is so special and successful because of its unique charm. If they continue to chip away at the unique charm to accommodate larger crowds, then they risk the very thing that the crowds are coming to see. It's possible to expand yourself out of business. I'm not saying that SDC is at risk of going out of business, but they do have to take care to maintain what makes the City special.

[HumphreyHawk]

This is a dangerous area. We all know that SDC is so special and successful because of its unique charm. If they continue to chip away at the unique charm to accommodate larger crowds, then they risk the very thing that the crowds are coming to see. It's possible to expand yourself out of business. I'm not saying that SDC is at risk of going out of business, but they do have to take care to maintain what makes the City special.

They could also raise admission prices to help control the crowds.....and/or go to a variable rate pricing like the big boys to capitalize on the high demand days.  Think I've posted on here before about my prediction that that will be coming.  Especially if the crowd levels continue to grow.  SDC to me only feels like the"good old SDC" when I get to go on the slower days. 

[runner1960]

Last year they issued a statement or a statement was made that they hit the 1.9 million attendance mark if I am not mistaken. Well, they surpassed that mark back in the 1990's which kinda suggests that attendance is stagnant. Are the crowds more concentrated now on fewer days ?  I have been there in December when its horrible and  and you cannot move and in July when you feel like you are the only one in the place.

I will agree that things need to be improved at pinch points and the entrance / exit is a fiasco even on calm days. A lot of the older buildings are deteriorating. Just go in the leather shop or mountain outfitters on a rainy day and look at all the buckets catching water from roof leaks. There is not a good solution here but with enough effort and money the charm can be duplicated.

[sirwillow]

Last year they issued a statement or a statement was made that they hit the 1.9 million attendance mark if I am not mistaken. Well, they surpassed that mark back in the 1990's which kinda suggests that attendance is stagnant.

Interesting points.  I tried doing some searching for attendance numbers for the park over the years, but wans't able to find much.  Anyone know if there is a place to see what their annual attendance has been at SDC?

[Okiebenz]

Maybe instead of trying to cram as many people in there as they can get maybe they should start cutting off entrance when a max capacity of people is reached.  That will never happen I am sure but is one idea.

[History Buff]

This is probably a one reason Disney has four parks in Florida, alongside their "competitors".  HFE needs to compete with itself a little.

[Coaster]

This is a dangerous area. We all know that SDC is so special and successful because of its unique charm. If they continue to chip away at the unique charm to accommodate larger crowds, then they risk the very thing that the crowds are coming to see. It's possible to expand yourself out of business. I'm not saying that SDC is at risk of going out of business, but they do have to take care to maintain what makes the City special.

They could also raise admission prices to help control the crowds.....and/or go to a variable rate pricing like the big boys to capitalize on the high demand days.  Think I've posted on here before about my prediction that that will be coming.  Especially if the crowd levels continue to grow.  SDC to me only feels like the"good old SDC" when I get to go on the slower days.

I don't think this type of tiered pricing system would work at SDC simply because a vast majority of those who visit the park are season pass holders. The tiered pricing works at places like Disney and Universal because not near as many visitors to those parks are season pass holders, but rather park hopper pass holders.

While I recognize that SDC has some major problem areas that get congested, I have also been to the WWoHP at Universal Orlando, and both of the HP lands there feel just as cramped, if not moreso everyday as SDC does on its busiest days. I'm just saying that since SDC is becoming a major player in the theme park business, they can learn from the other major players in regards to crowd control and keeping the same charm.

[HumphreyHawk]

I thought about that too....no doubt SDC has more season pass attendees by percentage then the big boys do...and a lot of the Saturday hordes of humanity are coming from the local markets with those passes. That being said....SDC does more one-time pass guests than a lot of the other local parks because it is in a tourist trap area.  They also get a large chunk of attendance from folks who only visit Branson a few days every year or two.  So they are kind of in an in between place where they could experiment with price and demand.

Dollywood probably has some of the same issues.....plus they have the resort.  If they do experiment with variable pricing I'm curious where they would try it first.

[chittlins]

This is probably a one reason Disney has four parks in Florida, alongside their "competitors".  HFE needs to compete with itself a little.

They had that in CC and the timing was horrible as it got nailed by the Great Recession. Ad in the fact that the concept needed much tweeking like much later hours and an admission policy like Fun Spot in OrLando or Kemah Boardwalk where it's free to enter and you pay to ride and play.

They 'could' drastically in prove White Water or start all over at the CC site. Having been to Hershey's and SFS with water parks inside the main dry park park could have been a route for CC.

The Track with the Ferris Wheel need to get GG in here and put up a woodie muy pronto.

[KBCraig]

I don't think this type of tiered pricing system would work at SDC simply because a vast majority of those who visit the park are season pass holders.

I haven't kept up. What are the official numbers on that (or at least educated estimates)?

I know there are at least a substantial number of SP holders in the total visitor numbers, and they can't be blocked out unless there are tiers of SP tickets.

How many SP holders buy just because they're going to be there for a week, but not visit at any other time?

I know the PTB have all the answers to this, but it's privileged information.

[mhguy77]

I haven't kept up. What are the official numbers on that (or at least educated estimates)?

I dont believe that info is public at all but we have conversed about trying to give away BAFS and it is difficult on a busy day to find someone that is paying cash for admission.  I would say the majority of guests to the park are SP holders or are guests of one.  Anyone have the percentages?

[HumphreyHawk]

How many SP holders buy just because they're going to be there for a week, but not visit at any other time?

yeah.....that would be the key metric.  What is the percent of SP holders that only visit during one trip vs. the 'locals' that make 3-20 trips during the year.  I'd assume most of the SP sales during the year for the current year are those one time a year visitors

[Swoosh]

I think it's time for SDC to take the next step and add a Flying Theatre.  This would go over well with park guests and could be enjoyed by a wider range of guests than the typical ride addition

https://youtu.be/Zs-fO9--u8w